Religion and Morality

At the end of Wednesday’s post I said even though people don’t believe in karma or heaven and hell doesn’t mean they can’t be good people anyway. I added that because I have known people who believe that atheists and agnostics must be immoral — people would never behave without some form of reward-punishment system. I have never believed that. I’ve known (even before radical Islam) too many religious people who aren’t very nice, and plenty of nonreligious people who are.

I agree with G.C. Lichtenberg, who wrote

There were honest people long before there were Christians and there are, God be praised, still honest people where there are no Christians. It could therefore easily be possible that people are Christians because true Christianity corresponds to what they would have been even if Christianity did not exist.

I also agree with Anne Lamott:

You can safely assume that you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.

What do you think?

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12 Responses to Religion and Morality

  1. Rummuser says:

    Atheism is a perfectly justified and reasonable philosophy.

  2. tammy j says:

    AMEN!
    more killing has been done in the name of religion than probably any other force known.
    well.
    except greed. that’s right up there with all the good religions.
    love the anne lamotte quote!

    • Jean says:

      It doesn’t have to be religion — other ideologies can have the same effect, and patriotism, pride, desire for status and power, etc. are powerful too.

  3. Audra E says:

    And of course there are those studies of the brain that appear to show morality (a sense of fairness, e.g.) is innate. Itty bitty infants have it.

    Religion is merely a way of codifying this sense, attempting to create a group consensus useful to individuals in moments of confusion or weakness. And then our busy little minds add creeds, codes, rituals to the basics. We all know the result, the supposed unifying force ends up creating separation.

    • Jean says:

      The unifying force within a group and the separation from people outside the group go hand in hand. But you’re right, our propensity for abstraction does make the whole thing interesting.

  4. Mike says:

    Some people use religion as an excuse for their bigotry and hypocrisy, which, of course, is invisible to them.

  5. Cindi says:

    Religion.
    I never used to talk about it. Well, I still don’t except here on the Internet.
    LOL!
    And that’s because almost everyone I know, is religious. Or say they are.
    They are part of the club, they have a book with rules they follow and as long as they go to church and say they are sorry, have some bread and wine. they can do whatever they please.
    They have convinced themselves that they will go Heaven and I’m not even sure what what their idea of Heaven is exactly…
    But I keep my thoughts to myself. I can’t help think that if there is a God, he sees through this charade. This act of following rules to get in this special place. But…
    I gotta say, I just don’t buy it.
    I actually don’t understand how an intelligent person can.
    I’m not meaning to say this in a hurtful, hateful way, I just mean…really?
    Isn’t this just another easy way to follow some rules and check it off their list and say, OK. I’m good. and then they are on their way, doing whatever they please and yet judging others.
    Religion seems to be the most convenient route. To say you believe, to fit in, to feel some comfort and turn the reins of your life over to a greater power and just go with the flow.
    I think it’s harder to say, hey, I don’t know what I believe!
    Maybe there’s something, someone out there, but while I’m not really sure how this will all play out, I will just try to treat people like I want to be treated.
    To me, morality has nothing to do with religion at all.
    Morals are empathy and compassion and sympathy and just being kind.
    It’s about listening, REALLY listening to your heart or maybe it’s your conscience and not playing games with yourself and making up reasons/excuses for your actions and just doing the right thing.
    Yeah, that’show I feel about it…
    and truly, organized religion scares the Hell out of me because the most amoral people I have known in my life, have professed to be Christians.

    • Jean says:

      Well said! I do know some deeply religious people who are kind and generous, though. If only there were more of them. 🙂

  6. Cindi says:

    Oh Jean, I didn’t mean to imply that Christians can not be kind and generous.
    That’s ONE of the reasons I seldom talk religion. It’s so easy to hurt and offend people with other points of view.
    One of my best friends here in town is probably one of the kindest, most giving and caring person I know. She is religious (Baptist) but I truly believe that it has nothing to do with her heart and soul. I think that she could have been born in another country and raised in another religion and there would still be the same outcome. She’s just good.

    • Jean says:

      I didn’t think you implying all Christians were unkind. I agree with you that basic temperament counts more than theology. This blog is a safe place to talk about our views — not that many people come here, and the ones who do are used to diverse opinions by now.

      Apparently there are a lot of different kinds of Baptists. Hence this joke by Emo Phillips:

      I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said ‘Stop! don’t do it!’ ‘Why shouldn’t I?’ he said. I said, ‘Well, there’s so much to live for!’ He said, ‘Like what?’ I said, ‘Well…are you religious or atheist?’ He said, ‘Religious.’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?’ He said, ‘Christian.’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?’ He said, ‘Protestant.’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?’ He said, ‘Baptist!’ I said, ‘Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist church of god or Baptist church of the lord?’ He said, ‘Baptist church of god!’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you original Baptist church of god, or are you reformed Baptist church of god?’ He said, ‘Reformed Baptist church of god!’ I said, ‘Me too! Are you reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?’ He said, ‘Reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!’ I said, ‘Die, heretic scum,’ and pushed him off.

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