The sink continues to heal itself, and Andy is building more bookcases, but the refrigerator is an ongoing problem. The pilot light keeps going out and the refrigerator shuts itself off. It will be interesting to see if it can ever be fixed, since we think the problem is the altitude. We did install the special high-altitude orifice for altitudes of 8000-8500+ feet to control the gas going to the burner, but the cottage is at 8800 feet and it looks as if we need a separate adjustment for the pilot light.
Andy has spent several hours now on the Internet and on the phone searching for suggestions from the company, but the problem seems to be beyond their expertise. One fellow did suggest we take the refrigerator to the closest service center—about 80 miles away and several thousand feet lower—but that isn’t feasible. So either Andy and the plumber figure it out themselves or else we skip the idea of a propane refrigerator.
Before Andy left this morning he warned me it was going to be an expensive project. Why am I not surprised? In fact the reason we downsized so severely was we knew things wouldn’t always go smoothly.
What about you? Any interesting challenges in your life right now? Do you usually expect things to go smoothly?
Yes I expect things to go smoothly & when there’s a bump in the road it’s either a pain in the behind or a challenge.
bikehikebabe,
I find I’m happiest when I can look at the bumps as challenges–or as funny stories.
Things generally are pretty smooth. Right now, the interesting challenges I’d rather not have to worry about are middle-aged offspring financial and employment difficulties.
You know Mike, the hardest lesson I’ve had to learn is that my offspring’s problems are not mine. Besides problems heal themselves for them just like mine did for me.
bikehikebabe — The girls are good “kids”. It’s hard not to be concerned when they need financial help and we can afford it.
At the moment things are going along pretty well in my part of the universe
Of course I expect things to go smoothly, what else? And when they don’t I am a little surprised but generally dead grateful when (after a repair with a bill to match, or at least a lot of patience expended) they work again. As I remarked the other day (and it was disaster that befell me – far worse than your sink) when all was well again and guess what: I was so stupidly happy. Stupidly happy to be where I’d left off a few hours ago. Back to square one. Yet, stupidly happy. Ah, the human spirit.
U
Placid and peaceful. Lots of activity, people, outings, eating out etc, but by and large just peaceful and pleasant.
I have a semi-massive-challenge happening here at home…
As many of you know I have decided to “dabble” err study art-making, the kind where you splosh paint and glue and paper around.
But as time has gone on textiles and the above don’t work in a very small room say about 6′ square and I have drifted into other rooms that weren’t doing much! But now I have had this idea that I want a dedicated space, where I can close the door at the evening and be in a living room with my self…
Although there is a huge tandem garage in the basement it has a lot of problems: lighting, windows, doors and of the damp in parts. That’s why it a garage I guess 🙂
So what should I do? I can’t afford to have an off-site art space!
So the current living room which is around 15 x 20′ is to become my art studio and a smaller room around 12 x 8′ is to be living room…which is will be more than adequate. The small original room will probably become storage temporarily but then become study/writing area.
I’ll write a post over at my blog later today on the matter 🙂
Mike,
It’s hard when they’re hit by circumstances beyond their control. But it’s good that you’re in a position to help. My daughter and son-in-law still have jobs, but there are no guarantees.
Evan,
I’m happy that things have eased up for you.
Me too!
Ursula,
Does that mean you no longer believe happy people are faking it?
Rummuser,
Again, I’m happy for you. 🙂
Cathy,
Thanks for the heads up on your post. That’s my kind of home–centered around the things that are most important to us.
I don’t understand the question, Jean. I have never believed that happy people are faking it. What I do believe is that some people fake happiness.
U
Ursula:
Have you not heard of the saying “fake ’til you make it” which can be applied to all kinds of situations that aren’t at the moment right in the ‘happiness, on-to-it’ phase right now
Cathy,
I assume you’re like me, you believe you have some influence on your emotions? For me that’s just part of living creatively.
Here’s my “living creatively”. When I do something stupid, usually because I’m not thinking, I redeem myself. I do something worthwhile, like what I’ve been putting off.
Voila: Now I’m whole again.
Ursula, Cathy, Jean, you’re all right.
Here’s a question. Can you control or should you control grief, when someone you love dies? Or other emotions that don’t benefit your health.
Cathy, I believe in an authentic life not ‘fake’.
Cynthia, to answer your question: Any emotion, whether grief or joy, can only be controlled in as much as you don’t show what you are feeling to those who don’t want to be shown. To those who don’t want to be made to feel uncomfortable if your emotion is not of the happy kind. And in that Jean is right: There is a time and a place for everything. And sometimes we need to exercise control – but it’s only ever on the surface. Can’t remember now who said it, probably Bertold Brecht, loosely translated as: “What it looks like inside me is no one’s business.” And no doubt that’ll chime, or so I hope, with Jean. All I know that if you let it all hang out you might not suffer a stomach ulcer but people won’t like it. They’d rather visit you in hospital with a bunch of grapes by way of comfort.
We have had this discussion before and every time Jean comes up with her ‘control of emotion’ I feel truly upset. In fact I could cry. Mustn’t cry. Must we. After all, what we are supposed (particularly when we are American) is to be happy at all times. A sort of default mode.
Yes, always put a happy smile on everything. Even when your guts are spilling onto the pavement.
Some people like myself are very lucky, and I think you, Cynthia, belong into the same ‘category’: We can be very happy at the same time as being sad. Happyness and sadness are not mutually exclusive. I have been happy, I have been unhappy, I have been happy in moments of sadness, I have been sad in moment of happiness. And god damn it, I laugh when I feel like laughing and cry when I feel like crying.
U
no you should allow grief or any range of emotions to suit the situation BUT if it continuing what seems like more than a week, then it is time to seek help.
Of course, a loved one going is going to be somewhat different…you have lost your soulmate, your companion and possibly the person who “always” does xyz.
I remember my brother and the problems he had the first time he made marmalade without his wife. As retired people they had done so much together; each their own separate job/aspect of the process. He burnt the pot badly and only managed to save around 1/4 of the product!
And another friend, a woman who had no idea how the household finances worked. She didn’t understand that you read the invoice and paid by the due date. Nor was she familiar with writing a cheque (check)! She struggled for months…but didn’t want to admit to her family that she didn’t know how 🙁
Therefore, I believe that short bursts of grief are good for the soul…often when I have these problems I have a darn good cry and I feel so much better. It is not because someone has died, but rather a small thing that overwhelms you – be it marmalade or cheques or something else 🙂
Sorry, Cathy, I cannot buy into how you simplify life: If ‘grief lasts more than a week” we should “seek help”. Are you and I living on the same planet? A week? Seek help? What help? Popping a few pills or put rose tinted spectacles on to leave us emotionally stunted? Emotions (happy and sad ones) are not a cancer eating away at us. They are our heart and soul. They are who we are.
One of the most important people in my life, my grandmother, died decades ago. I reserve my right to grieve for her. To this day. Mainly because my memories of our short time together are so happy. So I smile whilst a tear rolling. Is that ok?
U
Ursula, I’m not suggesting we “fake” anything all the time, but there are people, particular those seemingly go-a-head folk who might not be exactly authentic at the time. Nor am I suggesting we go around in hapless state in public but rather a darn good cry in the comfort of your home is an okay way to be. BTW I’m not an American but I do understand that sentiment that you have raised…
Ursula:
err, I may not have put the “help overcoming grief” quite right…and seeking help at the end of a week.
I suppose I meant that if an emotion was taking over your life to a point where you were not coping on a day-2-day basis. Letting certain things in your life drift away when you shouldn’t be in that situation then you will need help.
Depending on who you see, will depend whether you are “talking it through; taking pills, or something else” – no one wants someone to drift so far down a dark tunnel that ends up with life extinguished.
I guess that was my main argument – get some help before the problem escalates.
Your grief of your grandmother is possibly somewhat different. It will come to you when you think about something you did together or said and so on. It will bring back to memories/the era/the fashions etc.
For me I have no grief of that kind, I never knew my grandparents and my own parents were almost grandparents themselves…and they have been gone nearly 40years. My only grief is not having younger parents who I could be friends with…my only sibling left is 25 years older than me!
Have you noticed that men (nor the three here), don’t enter any conversations about emotions?
Cynthia, no, I haven’t noticed. Maybe they are otherwise engaged. I have been lucky with the men in my life, whether son, grandfather, husbands, friends, cousins, my brother, you name them, they will suffer a woman’s outpourings). However, you are right: Even the most patient will get a tad tetchy at times because men want to “fix” things. NOW. Which is lovely. Yet, try and explain that sometimes there is no instant solution. And that it does not matter. It’s the devil’s own job. Seriously, no joke: I have seen grown men cry because they couldn’t fix it for me (whatever constitutes ‘it’ at the time).
U
We don’t want men to FIX IT. We just want them to listen & maybe understand.
That’ll be because we are usually accused of being insensitive.
As to control and such. There are lots of different senses and nuances.
There are different visions of what is worthwhile that form the criterion of judgement. I’m not American and don’t value ambition – a big stream of US culture does: which brings a kind of freedom -you can fail as long as you keep trying (remain ambitious). The goal of ambition is ” success”, which needn’t mean financial (though in politics and public culture distressingly often does). This leads to an utilitarian and pragmatic approach to emotion (often under the heading ‘management’). In my view this is neurosis.
My own view is that real is better than fake.
However, what is real includes degrees and qualities. We do control what we do – including how we express our feelings. And the ways we do this has consequences. And the way we judge these consequences has to do with what we value.
Jay Abraham says he is glad he isn’t in self development because it is so complicated – all he has to do for his clients is ensure thay make lots (more) money. The same reductionism applies to many other areas eg. Physical fitness.
Those who value achievement don’t necessarily care about relationship, happiness or even money. Eg. For those who value innovation in fine art it doesn’t matter that Picasso was a jerk (to put it as kindly as possible), and it is a shame that Mozart gambled away his wealth because he died early and so stopped making music.
For me ‘control’ of emotion usually means stopping its expression. People usually want this because they are uncomfortable. Stopping the expression has consequences – at the extreme depression and rigid inhibition. I do think that expressing emotion in easy parts can be healthy. People can be panicked by the strength of their feeling and this won’t help usually.
I think in these discussions of emotion and its expression that the different values aren’t clarified. My value about this is that the real leads to a lasting satisfaction and the fake doesn’t. A complicating factor is that to express our emotion satisfactorily it is very helpful to have someone willing and able to listen – and these people can be thin on the ground.
I generally do not talk about emotions — never have. Probably just the way I was raised.
Controlling emotions — I generally try to think about or focus on something else to distract myself away from what causing sadness or emotional pain. It helps keep me pretty “laid back.”
On the other hand, I’ve got a good friend whose wife is likely in the last stages of terminal cancer. I do not know how I would deal with something like that. Two other friends have lost their spouses in the last few years, both after very short illnesses. One, three years on, still has serious bouts of grief and depression. The other, almost two years on, is still hurting, but now has a lady friend that he wants to marry. I dread finding myself in a similar situation.
I’m just a couple of weeks short of 61, yet, on occasion, I find myself dwelling on things long past, long forgiven, but not forgotten.
On grief — True grief cannot be resolved in a week. Paralyzing grief lasting for too long would probably benefit from some sort of counseling.
Mike et al, it seems that ’emotions’ could be direct or indirect…
One would feel for a friend, like your friends. What it might be like if you lost your SO or similar. How to help, and what to do?
Of course the last sentence applies to all genders not just one in particular…
My marriage fell apart some it based on his notions that children were not to be on our agenda because we would always have one another…problem he didn’t grow with me and now I have to grapple with the situation that I have no adult children (it’s a long story, well done with now)
This last weekend a well meaning woman suggested that I needed a pet or two…but pets do not usually grow up and have a habit of disappearing before you want them to do that. They can’t have a conversation with you, nor cook dinner let alone go to the movies with you and discuss things later 🙂
Mostly I’m happy with how things are now…I have to work at any change I want to put in place but then again if I’m successful it wouldn’t matter if there was no one to cook dinner, I could order it in 🙂
bikehikebabe,
“Can you control or should you control grief, when someone you love dies? Or other emotions that don’t benefit your health.”
You already know the answer to that. See Item 10 of The Traits of Stress-Hardy Resilient People. Grief is a natural part of life. And notice I very carefully didn’t use the word “control”. I wrote “influence”. Emotions are. It’s what we do with them that counts and as you point out, doing something constructive/helpful to others/worthwhile can help make us feel better sometimes.
Cathy,
I think you’ve described things well. I too believe in crying and don’t even worry if I sometimes do it in public. But if we start reacting in ways that is harmful to ourselves or others we should try to get some help. I especially agree that we can grieve over “small” things, like losing a favorite pair of socks, whatever. We, not others, get to say what we care, feel deeply, about.
That said, I told Kaitlin if anything happens to Andy expect me to be a basket case for at least a year, but don’t worry about it. It’s just part of the process. Whoever said that life should never hurt? I agree with the advice that whenever we suffer a major loss we shouldn’t make any big decisions for at least a year. The length of time isn’t rigid, but just realize our minds won’t be working quite right for a long time. Joan Didion talks about this in The Year of Magical Thinking. She uses the phrase “the shallowness of sanity”. Now whether we will remember this when we’re overpowered by grief is another matter.
Ursula,
Again, “control” is your term not mine. I think of emotions as energy, not always to be worshipped for themselves but sometimes to be used constructively, i.e., to express our values in the world. As usual, different people like different things.
Evan,
I partially agree with you, but I think the term “stress management” is a helpful one for me. I don’t think the concept is neurotic. You write, “We do control what we do – including how we express our feelings. And the ways we do this has consequences. And the way we judge these consequences has to do with what we value.” If you notice my ten traits are centered in values, so stress management is just using the energy of stress (and of our emotions) to further our values.
About good listeners being scarce— I spent a lot of time in the past being a good listener. Sometimes it helped people relieve pressure enough to give them a chance to look at their lives and make changes that made them happier, but a lot of times the emoting to listeners was satisfying enough that they kept doing the same old thing and getting the same old results that upset them. They never took responsibility for their part in what was going on.
Mike,
I’m 73 and Andy is almost 78, so the part about a spouse dying is probably a lot closer for us. As I said, I expect to be a basket case if something happens to Andy before I shuffle off, but in the meantime I appreciate the time we have left. I don’t take things for granted.
Cathy,
Sometimes adult children are a blessing, but not always. As usual there are no guarantees. I’m one of the lucky ones, but even then they need to live their own lives and without a significant other we still have to deal with the day to day loneliness ourselves.
About pets–the trouble is they die so soon. But if something happens to Andy I could see myself adopting an older dog that needs TLC. Although a cat would be more feasible, given the fact a dog would mean I would have to move–not a good idea for at least a year or so. I can see myself going back to intensive journal writing. That’s my ace in the hole when faced with big changes.
For me the neurotic is adopting an attitude to ourselves as an object.
Stress Management can be helpful to deal with overwhelm I think. My worry is things like CBT where thoughts are taken to be fundamental (it’s popular with academics).
I think emotions seek contact and expression. So sometimes knowing someone understands can be enough. And sometimes people withdraw and keep doing the same old things.
You seem to have hit on a hot topic with this post Jean.
Evan,
One size doesn’t fit all. From what I’ve read CBT has helped a lot of people. It would be interesting to see if the people helped were more T’s than F’s in Myers-Briggs.
My experience as a listening post is a lot of people do want a good listener. But many of those people often don’t want to listen to others. It can lead to one-sided relationships where the talker gets to be authentic but the listener doesn’t.
I once read that after an earthquake or some other traumatic event people want to talk about it for about two weeks. Then they want to stop, not because they don’t still want to talk but because they don’t want to have to listen to other people. It sounded plausible.
Hi Jean, I am sure that CBT has done some good. But it is hugely floored theoretically. It can’t give an account of transcendence or even more humble moments of unity.
Being willing to listen does lead to dilemmas about when to speak. I do think it can be fair to ask someone to listen after they have been listened to. This raises issues about relationship.
I do think on occasion I have created the expectation that I would listen and wouldn’t need to be listened to.
Recovery from trauma and making meaning can happen in waves I think. And it depends a lot on the kind of talking and listening that goes on. Reliving trauma with no change and even just being reminded of it won’t necessarily help I don’t think.
I do think CBT appeals more to thinkers. Especially those who use thinking to deal with their emotions.
CBT is something I’m a bit familiar with because it is the buzz all-cure for the chronic health problems I have had (although only have remnants of it remaining, due to other diagnosis/treatment).
Apparently many chronic health sufferers need to have their thoughts and behaviours changed and then they will be all better and it is often ‘given’ with GET on the side which in most cases puts the whole thing in the “trash can of non-usefulness”
So whenever I see CBT or even GET I am totally on the defensive because of the problems these so called professionals have come up with – doesn’t matter what it’s been heralded as!
Evan,
I’m curious about your statement, “For me the neurotic is adopting an attitude to ourselves as an object.” Does that mean you think the Dalai Lama and other Buddhists are neurotic?
(Without having looked in detail at what they say), Quite probably.
What’s your payoff for slapping labels on people? I’m more fascinated by the varieties of human experience. Who’s to say that just because other people are interested in different things they’re not authentic?
Well, I label behaviour for clarity. I usually don’t label people – as far as I recall I have spoken about ways of thinking and behaving. You were the one who asked about individuals.
I didn’t say that being interested in different things was inauthentic. I don’t think I said anything remotely like this.
Evan,
Good! So how do you define neurotic? I take it your definition is different from this one?
Well, lists of forms is a series of examples not a definition.
I guess my understanding could be given in various ways.
The one already given.
The substitution of one behaviour due to the pain or discomfort of engaging in another.
Rigidity to avoid creativity and challenge.
Are you disputing labelling or my definition of the label?
I suspect your labels for the Dalai Lama are things like admirable, enlightened and worthy of imitation. All of which I agree with.
So instead of saying the Dalai Lama and other Buddhists are probably neurotic you would say they have chosen a neurotic way of being in the world? If it works for them why would you call that neurotic? Why would that not be authentic for them?
Because there are qualities and varying notions of what works.
Neurosis is a way of being in the world and it does work for us (that’s why we do it).
“Are you disputing labelling or my definition of the label?”
I don’t see how the label adds anything. My guess is most people would say “The substitution of one behaviour due to the pain or discomfort of engaging in another,” is just plain common sense. How does calling it neurotic add anything?
As for as “rigidity to avoid creativity and challenge” is concerned it’s not my approach to life but I was fascinated by the fellow in my Toastmasters’ group who said he really liked knowing exactly what the rules are so he can follow them. What does it add to call his behavior neurotic?
My labels don’t add anything to any behaviour or event. They communicate my perceptions and judgements about the behaviour or event. The greater the clarity and precision the better I think.
Evan,
I’m afraid for me your use of the term neurotic adds confusion instead of clarity. Maybe that wouldn’t be true for other people.
Ok
I would argue that the word ‘neurotic’ being used by both of you – has different ideas depending on how you view them.
I can see where usually it is related to something ‘mentally unhinged’ but on the other hand it’s also a behaviour that can be continuous to a point where it might also be labelled as an addiction in a semi-linked way.
The people talked about are addicted to their way of life and they are happy with the notion that they have worked it all out. Either for themselves or to show others how life should be lived if you chose to adopt my ‘shoes’ – are they neurotic or something else…
Each to their own, I guess is the way to go forward 🙂
Cathy,
I tend not to use labels like “neurotic”. I looked it up because I didn’t even know exactly what it meant, but I had the feeling the usual definition was different from Evan’s. I simply say, “We’re all a bunch of nuts.” I figure if we’re all nuts in our own individual ways it behooves us not to judge others. That’s just what works for me.
I wanted to reply earlier but I was not on my home computer…a long, long day out with a short break to another computer/lunch/home.
I find the idea that you ‘tend not to use labels’ difficult to understand. That is because I would say 90% of the world is a bunch of labels and depending on who is working within them, depends on how you view them and which definition we believe is correct.
Whilst I was sitting at the computer elsewhere, I was thinking how I was “labelling” the world of that home-owner, the tools and gear they own, the way they have the interiors decorated and which breed of pet was in the back yard…etc
And how should I “label” them and how do they do…
Cathy,
I didn’t say I don’t use labels, just that I’m not inclined to use labels like neurotic. I do find the labels in the Enneagram, Myers-Briggs and Keirsey’s Temperaments useful for insight. For me the trick is not to oversimplify my thinking by stopping at the labels rather than looking at more details—if it’s an area I’m interested in. There are plenty of other areas I’m not interested enough to go much behind the label. Hey, in spite of all efforts to convert me, I still often call a ship a boat. It drives some people wild but it works for me. 😀
Jean, let me try and explain my take on it. Emotions are natural. I think that the problem arises when we call them good or bad. If we accept whatever emotion arises as something valid, live with it without reacting to it in anyway, including trying to subdue it or divert our attention by just being attentive to it, it has been my experience that it passes. Sometimes, it takes a long time, and most times not too much. There are some emotions that keep popping up regularly triggered by events that remind one of somebody and those too are legitimate and they too pass away.
If someone calls me an emotional person, I gladly accept that and be comfortable with that description of me.